Saturday, April 21, 2012

Re: Pro-fracking communities may be first to get approval in N.Y.

From: William Huston <>
Date: Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MarcellusGasInfo] Re: Pro-fracking communities may be first to get approval in N.Y.
To: farmerbob
Cc: MarcellusGasInfo 

Bob, I wouldn't call anyone fools at this point.
We're all just trying to understand this and try to protect this place.

As for propane fracking being safe,
yes, you keep repeating that,
and I keep pointing you to this:

Have you read it?

Gary P. Hoffman, Anthony Ingraffea, and Ruth Young dispute this.

Casing failures are a huge problem throughout the industry now,
and the medium of fracking does not seem related to this.
Even non-fracked wells have casing problems.
e.g., BP / Transocean / Macondo blowout

There are some unique dangers related to LPG, including BLEVEs:
* gasp *

Also, it is a quite young technology, so not much data.
They've had some spectacular accidents already.
Like Husky "flash fire" incident in Alberta Canada.
12 workers were injured. 3 had serious burns.

Also, Chip Northrup says the Tioga Co. deal smells of securities fraud.
They are marketing an instrument ("Working Interests")
which apparently shifts a lot of the financial liability obligations
upon the landowners.

The law requires these be used only with sophisticated investors
who fully understand the risk. See:

On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 6:47 PM, farmerbob  wrote:
you can fool all of the people some of the time,some of the people all
of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time. lpg
gas fracking ,no water and  only three chemicals which are totaly

bob aman


On Apr 21, 7:38 am, William Huston <> wrote:
> We need to develop a regional media teams which can generate
> a fast response to stories like this (press release, or press conference).
> What's our response to this?
> *Are there really pro-fracking communities out there?*
> Most people going door-to-door report 80% are against it and support a ban
> or moratorium.
> Pro-fracking communities may be first to get approval in N.Y.
> 11:59 PM, Apr. 20, 2012
>   <>
>   <%28[liUnknownAddress]%29>
> Written by Jon Campbell <%28[liUnknownAddress]%29>
> ALBANY -- Areas of New York that have been supportive of hydraulic
> fracturing for natural gas could be the first to get approval if the state
> Department of Environmental Conservation allows the technique, according to
> lawmakers and lobbyists.
> With the DEC in the midst of a lengthy review of its permitting guidelines
> for hydrofracking, some believe the agency will eventually move to allow it
> in certain areas near the Pennsylvania border.
> Sen. Thomas W. Libous, R-Binghamton, a gas-drilling supporter, said the
> state may ultimately focus on regions that haven't shown opposition to
> hydrofracking.
> "I believe they're going to look at areas of the state where there is
> Marcellus Shale, where there is potential for drilling in areas of the
> state that are going to be open to it," said Libous, the Senate deputy
> majority leader. "It just doesn't make sense for them to do it elsewhere,
> and I think there are enough areas of the state that would be open to it."
> Since 2008, the state DEC has been crafting permitting rules to dull the
> environmental impact of high-volume hydrofracking, a process that involves
> the use of water, sand and chemicals injected deep underground to unlock
> gas from shale formations. The technique hasn't yet been permitted in New
> York and won't be until the agency's review is complete.
> New York's portion of the vast, gas-rich Marcellus Shale formation lies
> beneath all or part of 30 counties, stretching from the western part of the
> state to the Catskills, according to the DEC. But the thickest and most
> lucrative part of the shale is believed by geologists to be in the southern
> portions of Broome, Tioga and Chemung counties.
> And most of the government opposition to hydrofracking has come from
> outside the shale's epicenter in New York. More than 90 municipalities have
> issued bans or moratoriums on hydrofracking; All but one -- the city of
> Binghamton -- have been outside of Broome, Tioga and Chemung counties.
> In December, Binghamton City Council at the urging of Mayor Matthew T.
> Ryan, approved a two-year ban on hydraulic fracturing -- the only official
> governmental ban in Broome County.
> At its April 4 meeting, the Town of Union board accepted a petition from
> the Glen Park Homeowner's Association requesting a "ban on gas drilling
> using hydrofracking" in the town and establishing a 5-ton weight limit on
> vehicles using Western Heights Boulevard.
> More recently, Residents Against Fracking in Tioga presented the Town of
> Owego board a petition with 1,000 signatures asking for a ban.
> "We are totally against fracking," said Gerri Wiley, who submitted the RAFT
> petition and referred to a brochure titled "101 reasons High-Volume
> Hydraulic Fracturing Needs to be Banned in New York State."
> Recently, some pro-hydrofracking landowner groups have mobilized in towns
> close to the Pennsylvania border, hoping to convince town boards to pass
> resolutions in support of gas drilling and the economic opportunity it
> brings.
> James Finch, acting supervisor of the Town of Conklin said the town board
> would soon act on the resolution as a way of signaling to the DEC that it
> wants drilling within its borders.
> "That's the only thing that's going to bring this area back," said Finch,
> noting that the town has been hit hard by flooding twice since 2006.
> In the Town of Vestal, both pro- and anti-hydrofracking groups have lobbied
> board members in recent weeks, hoping to have the board take action in
> their favor.
> "I'm getting tapped by both sides, and they're both working diligently to
> try and prove their case," said Supervisor John Schaffer. "We have not
> supported it, and we have not denied it. We will listen to everybody, and
> we will react when the time comes to react."
> DEC already signaled that it would allow some local involvement in the
> permitting process. A draft version of the agency's hydrofracking review
> lets municipalities "raise a flag with DEC" if a permit application doesn't
> follow its local land and zoning laws, DEC spokeswoman Emily DeSantis wrote
> in an email.
> "If high-volume hydraulic fracturing moves forward in New York, local
> governments will get advance notice of all applications and can comment on
> compatibility of such application with local land use laws and policies,"
> DeSantis wrote. "DEC will consider this in its review of the permit
> application and can deny or condition a permit based on this information if
> it deems such action is appropriate based on the impacts."
> DEC Commissioner Joseph Martens, meanwhile, has repeatedly said the agency
> won't issue more permits than its staff can handle -- a number that would
> likely be small, given that the agency has lost more than 800 full-time
> positions since 2008.
> Courts have so far backed local control over whether to allow
> hydrofracking. A pair of state Supreme Court decisions last month found
> that municipalities can indeed ban drilling or hydrofracking within their
> borders; both decisions are currently awaiting appeal.
> Allowing any hydrofracking permits, however, would be sure to anger groups
> opposed to the technique, many of whom believe it can cause irreparable
> harm to the environment.
> "My sense is once DEC completes their process, I think that we'll ease into
> this," said Sen. James Seward, R-Milford, Otsego County.
> "There will be a limited number of permits. Where the best opportunity is
> for the most return on wells and where the local community welcomes the
> opportunity, I think that obviously makes sense to issue permits that meet
> those two criteria."
> Assemblywoman Barbara Lifton, D-Ithaca, said she believes the DEC needs to
> start over in its regulatory review and take human-health impacts into
> account before allowing any drills in the ground. Lifton and Seward have
> been supporters of "home rule," sponsoring separate bills that would
> clarify the municipal right to ban or zone drilling.
> "We have to know whether this industry is ready for primetime in New York
> -- whether it's safe, whether it's going to hurt the water," Lifton said.
> "And I don't believe we're at that point."
> Allowing a piecemeal approach to drilling in New York would likely receive
> pushback from the gas industry.
> Thomas West, who represents several gas companies as an Albany-based
> lobbyist and attorney, said the industry would likely move slowly into New
> York anyway because of natural-gas prices that have been trading at
> decade-long lows. But he questioned the legality of the state allowing
> drilling in some areas and not others.
> The DEC has already announced its intention to ban surface drilling within
> the New York City and Syracuse watersheds, a move West also questioned.
> "I don't know how the state can come down and make a value judgment and
> say, 'We're going to allow it in limited place," West said. "I think DEC is
> sticking its neck out by carving out areas."
> Staff writer Ed Christine contributed to this report.
> --
> --
> May you, and all beings
> be happy and free from suffering :)
> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)


May you, and all beings
be happy and free from suffering :)
-- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)

May you, and all beings
be happy and free from suffering :)
-- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)

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